Questions about Form FL-150 and FL-160

#21

Cristin,

I hope this forum is extant! It’s really useful for folks who need orientation. I have several questions about form FL-150.

First, my girlfriend was divorced in Moscow towards the end of 2016, but the income and expense form her ex-husband filed is current as of 2019, not at the time of separation. It seems the form ought to be constructed with the financial situation at the time of divorce or separation (in the case there was no separation period).

Second, I’m wondering how stock options are treated. It seems to me they are tied to my current employer. Due to the nature of the stock options, which were granted in May with a separation in October, it’s not clear to me how to declare these for various reasons, including their value at vesting is unknown.

Third, I have an unknown amount of money in a some kind of holding account. My understanding is that as I have not received the money yet. My understanding is this is not taxable until such time as I take the money. How do I declare this unknown amount of money? My intent is to take the money in February or so.

Thanks for your time on this!

#22

I’m sorry, but I don’t know if I fully understand your questions.

Regarding your girlfriend/ex-husband’s situation, form FL-150 is based on current income, not income as of date of separation.

Stock options are one of the most complicated issues in a divorce. Options that are granted during marriage are community property; however, since they are tied to your ongoing post-separation employment, there is also a separate property interest. The community/separate components of the options are apportioned using a formula, the most common ones based on cases (Hug and Nelson). Options that vest shortly after separation will be nearly all community property, whereas options that vest years after separation will be primarily separate property.

On top of the property division aspect, the separate property component of your stock options is related to another issue, namely support. Your separate property stock option income is income available for both child and spousal support. In general, the community income from stock options is excluded from a support calculation, since each of you is receiving 50%. The income from your stock options is based/calculated on the vesting date, NOT the date you actually exercise.

Finally, I don’t have nearly enough information to understand what “unknown money in some kind of holding account” means. Is this money from an inheritance? Employment? Investment? If you’re asking for how to disclose it on your financial disclosures (FL-140 or FL-160), you would list the account holder/institution, the date acquired (it sounds like you choose when you can receive the money, so I would put the date that the money went into the account), and the value would be “Unknown” or “TBD.”

#23

Hello,
Thank you, you’ve helped me so much in getting these forms in for the divorce without an attorney.

My question is that we both filled out the FL160 for community and separate property.

At the clerks office after turning them in. I asked is there anything else I need to do? They said no and to check the court house for the final dissolution of the marriage.

However, I am reading that I need to also turn in an FL-150 as well? If so, I am working on it now.

Date of separation was in 12/2019. However when filling this out I am using income and information from 6/2020. Even though some income is from separate property now and made after date of separation. Can you please explain what I need to do?

#24

It’s hard for me to tell exactly where you are at in the process without more information, but in general, there are three parts to an uncontested divorce:

  1. Filing and service of the Petition/Summons (FL-100, FL-110); filing and service of the Response (FL-120)

  2. Exchange of financial disclosures: FL-140, FL-141, FL-150, and EITHER FL-160 OR FL-142; filing of at least FL-141 (if there is a full agreement, otherwise filing FL-150 is required)

  3. Filing of final agreement: minimally FL-130, FL-144, FL-170, FL-180, and FL-190 are required. There may be additional forms and requirements depending on your particular situation.

#25

Hi! I have a few questions regarding the FL-160…I’m rather confused so any light shed is greatly appreciated:

  • For determining separate assets vs community property. For separate property, is the balance before marriage my separate property. The balance during marriage so the balance at separation date minus the balance at marriage date the community property? and whatever is left separate property?

  • For the date acquired date, is that when I opened the bank account or 401k? If I opened it after the date of separation, does that need to be included in as well?

#26

Hi Cristin,

Your articles are so informative, thank you! I’m still having trouble with a few questions on the FL-150 and I’m hoping you can help!

  1. Questions 1 & 7: I’m self-employed (my business is an S-Corp) and I also receive a W-2 wage from my company. Do I fill out both Question 1 (employment info w/ gross monthly income) and/or Question 7 (self-employment income after all business expenses)?

  2. Question 11(a): do I include my business bank account in my assets or only personal bank accounts?

  3. Question 11: We sold our family home after our separation and the proceeds are being held in escrow until the division of assets is determined by the court. Where would I have to list this on this FL-150?

  4. Question 13: I’m confused what box to select at the beginning of Question 13 since some numbers I have are Estimated, some are Actual and some are Proposed? For instance, my soon-to-be ex currently pays my health insurance premiums but after our divorce is final I will have to pay that new expense, how do I indicate that on this form?

  5. Question 13: Since I pay my cell phone, car payment and auto insurance from my company bank account, do I still include those expenses in Question 13?

  6. Question 13: When a portion of a business expense paid from my company account is personal (ie. water delivery service to home office), do I leave those expenses out since they are being paid out of my company and reflected on my K-1?

  7. Question 14: do I include my car payments even though I pay that expense through my company?

Thanks, I really appreciate your help!

#27

  1. I would put your W-2 wages down on Question 1, and then on Question 5, I would include the K-1 income under 5l. I would NOT put the income under #7, since that’s really intended for Schedule C individuals.

  2. Personal

  3. I would put it under 11a but clarify that the amount includes community funds.

  4. Most of the time, “estimated” expenses is what you check, which is based on your current expenses. There are times, however, when I will include TWO page 3’s, one for “estimated” and one for “proposed needs.” I would do that in situations where spousal support was relevant and I was making a request for support based on my needs.

  5. No.

  6. Yes.

  7. No.

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#28

Thank you so much Cristin! Your answers came just in the nick of time! I was just about to finalize and submit my FL-150 with my business expenses and bank account balances included. I am so grateful for your guidance and speedy reply!! Your website, blog articles and this Forum are invaluable! Thanks for your help!!

#29

Thank you Cristin for this forum. It’s very helpful. I viewed your video for completing the FL-150. I have been legally separated from my wife since 10-25-19. As a result, I had to move back in with my parents. However, I have and still pay for the majority of all the household expenses at the residence where I used to live. So, does section 12 not apply since I live with my parents? Also, in 13, can I apply the monthly expenses for the residence where my wife and child live even though I do not live there?

#30

My question is regarding legal separation in California.

Uncontested with written agreement from other party (minor children).

You outline following steps which are pretty much accurate in our case.

  1. Filing and service of the Petition/Summons (FL-100, FL-110); filing and service of the Response (FL-120)
  2. Exchange of financial disclosures: FL-140, FL-141, FL-150, and EITHER FL-160 OR FL-142; filing of at least FL-141 (if there is a full agreement, otherwise filing FL-150 is required)
  3. Filing of final agreement: minimally FL-130, FL-144, FL-170, FL-180, and FL-190 are required. There may be additional forms and requirements depending on your particular situation.

I know we have to exchange preliminary financial disclosure forms with other party. No debt, real estate property and only saving account which we will split 50/50 and everything else written in agreement (pretty much agree 50-50 split on all the issues including child custody).

My question is – DO I have to file FL-150 & FL-160 to court? We will exchange FL-150, FL-160 & FL-140. We will file FL-141 and FL-144 to court but not FL-150 and FL-160. I want to keep my finance private from court.

Is that possible? Thank you so much

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#31

I am excited and looking forward for your response on this Cristin!